Horowitz and the Moslem Student

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On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Dr. Lisa wrote:

Scary...he is amazing in his quick answer on a very touchy subject - what an ugly world we live in...How would YOU have answered?

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The video clip was of a speech given by a David Horowitz (some neo-conservitive right-wing nut-job). He was making opposition comment on a rally planned by a campus group, Moslem Student Association, called "Israeli Apartheid Week" (Horowitz labelled the planned event "Hitler Youth Week". I think I generally agree with his opinion on the matter but admittedly don't know much about it.
At any rate, video was of a female Moslem student who during the Q&A period tried to peg Horowitz on some of his other writings and opinions.
Horowitz then turned the tables on the girl by asking her if she supported Hamas and Hezbollah's murderous/genocidal attitudes regarding Jews. The girl did not respond very intelligently.
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On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Dave wrote:

Ok, after 5pm, I got a chance to play it :).

So no I don't think it's so much a matter of working hard to be fair (although I can see it looking that way). I see it more as a matter of retaining reason, and most particularly, not becoming so wound up in the energy of the argument that I become like that which I argue against, albeit simply on the other side. Thus, when one person says "all Jews suck and should die", followed by the opposing opinion saying "no! *you* suck and *you* should die!", I don't see how any external observers would be able to see any difference between these two. The desire is to win, not to inflict similar injury.

Horowitz in this confrontation did exactly what I think should have been done. He didn't get all upset and start hurling hateful emotional response. Instead he addressed the issue with calm counter debate. I think some of his logic is incorrect and reflects the binary rigidity of a "rigth-wing"(neo-conservative) mentality - to not oppose hamas does not mean one supports hamas. There is a third path - apathy, ignorance, and/or undecided/uncommitted. Horowitz is smart. He knows his logic is erroneous, but it doesn't matter because it lends toward his point, and it "defeats" the lesser capable adversary in this case.

This woman's greatest mistake in this exchange was thinking she was "up to" the challenge of an immensely seasoned orator, and therefore willing to take him on directly when he turned the tables and, ignoring her question, he questioned her instead. She should have immediately refused to answer his question and simply insisted that hers was the matter to be addressed at present. It may not have gotten her anywhere towards her answer, but it would have prevented her from being so pathetically check-mated by Horowitz's polemics, and looking like an Islamist extremist fool..

I don't know if you notice in my reply above that I have no great love for Horowitz. But I also think the woman here was indeed an ignorant racist who correctly reinforces our disdain for the Islamist movement. There is a fundamental and irreconcilable difference between our present day understanding of religion, society, and politics, and that held by Islamists (not Islamic/moslem people, but those on the extreme 'Islamist' pole). We see the essential need for dividing religion and government. Even if our religious philosophies bleed into our political views (which is unavoidable), we understand that this division is of absolutely importance. Islamists do not see a separation of 'church and state'. They don't understand a government without religion tightly-coupled to it - that's just nonsensical to them.

I can understand, given their understanding of Islam as society's guide, that they would naturally see absurd anarchy in the idea of government without god. Not all Moslems are of this same opinion, although Islamic historical culture tends generally in this direction - which is part of the difficulty of this new East-West conflict.

Islamists suck.
Islamic people do not.

Frankly, I don't know if this woman was an Islamist or not. This was not made clear by this interchange. It is clear, however, that she is racist, and so far to the one-side of her position that she can't be readily reasoned with without a tremendous amount of effort to find her humanity in there somewhere, and to get her to see the humanity in the 'other side'.

Kudo's to Horowitz in this case.
---D.



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On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Dr. Lisa wrote:

Thank you for your brilliant reasoning on the subject! Absolutely great analysis of the video- I am glad you took the time to look at it!

I did love the way the (to me also unknown )Horowitz handled the situation -very clever public speaker, I must say...The woman ( basically a wide eyed, immature student), was a pompous ass, a truly ignorant jerk in my eyes! You with your fabulous erudition, however, said it so much better and so much more politely and civilized,so forgive me for my coarse language...

---M.